Live From ESTO: Destinations Learning Best Practices from Other Destinations

Intro: Recorded live at ESTO in Columbus, Ohio, this is Brand USA Talks Travel. Get ready to take mental notes from the top minds and creative thinkers who are driving innovation in destination marketing, content, research, public relations, policy, and more. Now, here's your host, Mark Lapidus. 

Mark Lapidus [0:19]: If you were to pitch Nevada to a potential visitor using only three words, what would they be, and why would you use those words? 

Rafael Villanueva [0:26]: "Wide open spaces." 

Mark Lapidus [0:27]: Ooh. 

Art Jimenez [0:28]: Took my words. 

Mark Lapidus [0:30]: I'll give you a minute to think of three more. 

Rafael Villanueva [0:32]: Well, the fact that the state of Nevada has probably more public land, federal land, than any state other than maybe Alaska, allows us to be able to do some really beautiful, unique things. A lot of outdoor rec. Also, our dark skies are some stunning areas of the state, that you really can't understand until you're actually there and seeing it. But the fact that you can just do so much in our entire state, that's something that's very special. 

Art Jimenez [0:55]: Wow. Three words... You know, the thing about Nevada is that it's so different. If you take Las Vegas out of the equation, the rest of the state is pretty much the same, except for elevations. But I was thinking back to your old... the magazine ads, with "State within a state." 

Mark Lapidus [1:10]: I like that. I'm pleased to be joined today by Rafael Villanueva, CEO of Travel Nevada, and Art Jimenez, Executive Director of Tourism Sales at Visit Reno/Tahoe. Welcome, gentlemen. 

Rafael Villanueva [1:20]: Thank you. 

Art Jimenez [1:20]: Thank you. 

Mark Lapidus [1:21]: So, since you're a state and city DMO, both of you, one works at the state, one works at the city, tell me how you work together.

Rafael Villanueva [1:28]: We can only grow the state by working with our partners. And Reno is the jewel of northern Nevada for us. So we look at ways we can collaborate together, where we can expand the message from the rest of the state together. And we're very fortunate, too, that the CEO of Reno, the RSCVA, sits on our commission, so we also get advice and oversight, and it's a great partnership. 

Art Jimenez [1:51]: When it comes down a little bit more tactical, when we're planning, for example, sales missions or FAM trips or attending trade shows, Travel Nevada is a fantastic partner, and we look for them to lead the way. To set the tone for whatever that venue is, for the state, and then therefore we'll follow, Visit Reno/Tahoe, along with the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. What's nice about this three-way collaboration is that we come in as a force, and we get to showcase the entire state, versus just coming in for Reno or just Las Vegas. Tend to get more eyeballs wanting to attend our events. 

Mark Lapidus [2:24]: So do you think there's anything unusual about the way you do business? I mean, there are a lot of state DMOs that work with their local DMOs, but is there anything unique about what happens in Nevada? 

Rafael Villanueva [2:33]: Well, you know, we have one DMO at the very south of the state that is massive, and has the resources that the rest of us collectively don't have. So we have to work with them, but we have to partner with them and leverage against what the work that they're doing. And at the end of the day, we don't get in their way. Then there's the rest of the state, that we need to be able to work and collaborate and we make the decision, is, are we going to support, augment, or are we going to lead? And it depends on what segment and what sector we're going to. So I don't know if it's different what other states are doing, but we're very fortunate that we have RSCVA in the north and the LVCVA in the south. 

Art Jimenez [3:09]: With both of us - a little disclosure, we worked together for the Las Vegas Convention Authority for about 18 years, and in fact, we've known each other since we were little kids. 

Mark Lapidus [3:18]: Is that true? 

Rafael Villanueva [3:18]: Absolutely. 

Art Jimenez [3:19]: Yep. 

Mark Lapidus [3:19]: Wow, that's unique. 

Rafael Villanueva [3:20]: When he was 14 and I was 12. 

Art Jimenez [3:22]: I say we were 13 when we met. And so we've collaborated our entire careers. And now, you know, whether the state is promoting the loneliest highway in America or a rural trip, which doesn't necessarily involve us, depending on what part of the state, but when they do get up to our part of the state, where we have Lake Tahoe and Reno and Virginia City and the Carson Valley, we all collaborate very, very close, all those area DMOs, and certainly look to Travel Nevada to either collaborate, enhance, or lead. 

Rafael Villanueva [3:52]: There's a part two about, we don't compete with each other; we help each other out. The areas where we're looking at and where we're growing, is either someone else's future visitor or partner or client. That makes it really easy to be able to work with each other. You know, in the past we used to say, "Well, I need that hotel night to be in the south or up north." We know that visitors, especially on the international side - that's been a conversation the last day here at ESTO - has been, we know that they're going to visit more areas. We just would like it to visit more areas in the state of Nevada. 

Mark Lapidus [4:22]: Who doesn't want an extra day? 

Rafael Villanueva [4:23]: Absolutely. 

Art Jimenez [4:24]: One of the things that we have to be a little bit more conscious on our end, more so than the state does, especially in Nevada, is how we're working with our hotel partners. Since we are funded by room tax and we are governed by a board of directors, per Nevada state statutes, a lot of those members are hotel/casino operators. So we have to be very careful how we go after certain pieces of business that will fit their models the best. 

Mark Lapidus [4:49]: I suppose promoting gaming is tricky in itself. 

Art Jimenez [4:52]: You know, up until maybe ten years ago, you couldn't promote gaming, at least on television; you couldn't promote it outside of the state. But if you had a sales film and you went on a sales mission or a trade show, you could show that. But gaming, it's a driver. It's one of the activities that people do when they visit the destination. 

Mark Lapidus [5:08]: Right. One of many, I'm sure. 

Art Jimenez [5:10]: One of many, one of many. A lot of people would argue that it's the only reason why they come- 

Mark Lapidus [5:14]: I'm sure that's not true. 

Art Jimenez [5:15]: -to the destination, but especially in Reno, in southern Nevada as well, a lot of these events that are put together are designed with gaming in the background. Top players... 

Rafael Villanueva [5:24]: And the state is synonymous with gaming, right? So you don't really have to promote it. This is numbers like in 2020, about 9-10% of the people traveling to Nevada were saying they were doing it for gaming. Everybody else was looking for everything else, whether it's the events, the attractions, the programs. Again, the big wide outdoors that we have, there's no need for us to go out there. And then the gaming companies have resources a lot more than us, and they can be aggressive, and they're very specific on who they go after. So, again, back to augmenting, supporting, but not getting in their way. 

Art Jimenez [5:53]: And, you know, in gaming, what was unique is that when it became legal in 1933 or 1931, it set Nevada apart throughout the entire country. And we've always had that allure to gaming, and then, of course, there was legalized divorce shortly thereafter. That really put us on the map. But on the gaming side, and it's evolved. It's evolved throughout time, it continues to evolve. You look at Las Vegas, what they've done now, with all the sporting events and these big special events, and destinations like Reno or Lake Tahoe, we've relied on our natural beauty, four-season, wide open space-type of offerings. 

Mark Lapidus [6:26]: Let's talk about events, cause you have some huge ones there in Nevada. My son has been working at Burning Man for years. 

Rafael Villanueva [6:31]: Oh, wow. 

Mark Lapidus [6:32]: Yeah, last couple he hasn't, cause he decided to go back to college and get a second degree. So he's really been bummed he hasn't been able to attend the last two years, but for five years in a row, I think, he was working on staff there at Burning Man, so I heard a lot of stories. I would love to hear it from your perspectives. 

Rafael Villanueva [6:46]: All I know is what I read. I'm told I'm too old to go. 

Mark Lapidus [6:49]: Not true, not true. 

Art Jimenez [6:51]: You know, Burning Man, what's unique about it, in its 30 or so years it's been around, is that it literally is one of the darkest places on earth. And as Rafael mentioned not too long ago, we have some of the darkest skies on earth. Black Rock deserts. About an hour 45 minutes from Reno, 80,000 burners gather every year- 

Mark Lapidus [7:08]: Gerlach, right? 

Art Jimenez [7:09]: Gerlach. Gerlach, population 50 - to watch the man burn. 

Mark Lapidus [7:14]: Right. 

Art Jimenez [7:14]: After every year. You can tell when the burners are coming into town, because you go to the supermarket to get groceries the week before, they've got six, seven cart fulls. And then they've got their motorhomes with all their bicycles on there, and all their flags on there. But what's really interesting is when the burners leave, when they go to check their luggage at the airport, they shrink wrap all the luggage outdoors before they bring it inside, because it really plays havoc with the conveyor belts. 

Mark Lapidus [7:37]: Oh, I didn't know that. 

Rafael Villanueva [7:37]: Burning Man is great, but what they leave is pretty phenomenal, because there's a lot of art that's created, and we've been placing it in different parts of the state. 

Mark Lapidus [7:45]: I didn't know that either. That's so cool. 

Rafael Villanueva [7:47]: We're funding a program with the Friends of Black Rock to be able to take a lot of that art and use it as a reason and purpose for people to come visit the rest of the year. Rather, not just during Burning Man. There was some funding mechanism we were able to create, that is creating a tourism product that could last all year long. 

Art Jimenez [8:03]: You know, there's a group in downtown Reno, the Jacobs Entertainment Group. They've bought up about 20 or so city blocks in downtown Reno of old dilapidated properties and motels and what have you. And they've created housing for employees and for seniors that were living there. They didn't just displace them, they took care of them, but they've expanded their property and they have, it's called the Neon Line. And they have an outdoor counselor hall, they have a new hotel that they've remodeled, but they have all of this burning artwork located throughout this whole Neon Line. I mean, it's 30, 40 feet in some cases, some of these statues. Mark Lapidus [8:35]: This is terrific. Another reason to visit. 

Rafael Villanueva [8:37]: Yeah. And if you go to Area 15 in Las Vegas, at the whole entrance, they have a lot of the artwork that was from Burning Man as well. So every year there's more pieces of work. It's made out there for Burning Man, but then we'll be able to take it in different parts of the state. 

Mark Lapidus [8:52]: This has got to be great for international travel, too. 

Art Jimenez [8:54]: Oh, yes, it's great for international travel. In fact, Burning Man was just ranked as the top-searched festival in the world a few weeks ago, comparing to festivals that are, you know, in Europe and Brazil and throughout the world. The thing about Burning Man is that even after they end Burning Man, the hotels will create special events for the burners, where they can come and park their vans or their motorhomes in the parking lot, and then they'll do pool parties. They'll go all night long. And this is a week after Burning Man. 

Mark Lapidus [9:22]: Maybe I should come after the event. 

Art Jimenez [9:24]: We certainly catch the pre- and the post- of Burning Man. 

Rafael Villanueva [9:27]: This last year, the pool parties were really important, cause they were all full of mud. 

Mark Lapidus [9:31]: Right, I read about that. Fortunately, my son wasn't there. You know, like the one year he's not there, actually, he was better off not being there, probably. So what other huge events are happening in Nevada that drive international tourism? 

Rafael Villanueva [9:43]: Well, you know, we're very fortunate of the facilities have been built in Las Vegas. Legion Stadium, and a lot of the friendly matches and football, and there's rugby, rugby games now being played out in that area. And then we have music festivals throughout. 

Mark Lapidus [9:56]: Right, of course. 

Rafael Villanueva [9:57]: The great thing about the international market that looks at Las Vegas, other than when Taylor Swift might be back- 

Mark Lapidus [10:03]: She's the exception to all rules. 

Rafael Villanueva [10:04]: -They just look at going to Nevada, and Las Vegas says, there's so many other elements there to do. So Formula One just went to Las Vegas last November. It was a huge success. It's done in the evening. Major investment from the Formula One folks in the state. They bought land, they built their paddock area there. So they planned on being there for a long time. It didn't bring in lots of volume, but it brought in a very high-end customer. But those who follow Formula One around the world love it. 

Mark Lapidus [10:31]: It's really a growing sport. 

Rafael Villanueva [10:32]: Oh, it's phenomenal. It didn't fill up all the hotel rooms like they were hoping, but it was the best gaming revenue of that November ever. The best sales tax for that month ever. And we'll be ready for it in November again this year. 

Art Jimenez [10:44]: So up north in the Reno/Lake Tahoe area, we have an international airport, but we only have one international flight, and that's on Volaris Airlines out of Guadalajara. But I think that our allure for international visitors is our winter ski and winter activities. You know, we have Lake Tahoe in the surrounding area. We have more ski resorts, twelve ski resorts within an hour of each other, which is more than any one destination in North America. So we're on a mission to expand that out to international skiers. Especially then the resorts aren't as crowded as the more popular ones in competing destinations. 

Mark Lapidus [11:17]: Sounds like a huge opportunity. 

Rafael Villanueva [11:18]: But talking about that, though they may have that one flight that's international, there are so many one-stop connections. Whether you're going through all the international flights that go in southern Nevada, that can then take 12, 13 flights a day. That's from Vegas to Reno, or coming in from San Francisco and connecting right over or Sacramento. So the major airports have a really good connect with our airport. And it's one of my favorite airports, Reno airport. The nicest TSA agents you're gonna find in any airport in the United States. 

Mark Lapidus [11:45]: Have they been trained that way? 

Rafael Villanueva [11:46]: They're so friendly. They're so happy. You know, they look at me as this old guy, so they're always helping me find my way out of this space. 

Mark Lapidus [11:52]: I know you guys have been here for all of ten minutes, because we're recording this during one of the first days of ESTO, but I am curious about what you think the hot button topics are for this year that you're gonna be talking to other DMO leaders about. 

Rafael Villanueva [12:03]: Well, it seems like the hot topic at any conference in any industry has been AI, right? And there's a lot of our partners here, a lot of product here, and how they're incorporating that in their work. I've been here for a couple of days already, because I attended the National Council of State Tourism Directors meeting, and we had a lot of conversation about collaboration, what's the next step? How we're working more with U.S. Travel and with Brand USA. There's always unique marketing tools at an ESTO. And in the past, I remember going to ESTO 10, 15 years ago, and it's not even close to what you see out here, with the new technology, the new companies that are helping the travel industry reach their customers. 

Mark Lapidus [12:41]: One of the things I noticed that was very cool, that I hadn't seen before is I walked into the big hall out there, and there are, I don't know, maybe seven sessions going on simultaneously. And everyone is wearing headphones, so you can't hear any of the speakers. That was very cool. 

Rafael Villanueva [12:57]: It's like the silent disco thing, right? Everybody's out there dancing around with headsets. 

Mark Lapidus [13:00]: It's a hell of a use of space too. 

Rafael Villanueva [13:02]: Absolutely. And, you know, you want to see activity, and sometimes in a convention center you're stuck in a room, and nobody else walks by and sees the activity. Here you get to see all that. You're curious, you want to participate. It's a great idea. 

Mark Lapidus [13:12]: That was very sweet. What do you think, Art? 

Art Jimenez [13:14]: You know, I think that as we look at what storms that are ahead of us - and there are certainly a lot of storms ahead of us right now - not what will happen so much at ESTO, but I think what I'd like to see is, you know, what happens if we do have some really bad storms ahead of us? Do we go back to basics? How can AI help us go back to basics? Or do we just go back to basics, you know, I think collaborations is still very important. Meeting one on one is key, but I think listening to best practices... The thing about the sessions here at ESTO, and I've been coming for years, is that when you get into the breakouts, and you listen to the case studies, and then what's going on in real time, in real life, and you pick up a nugget or two of like, "Oh, I can apply that to a situation back in our office." I still think that the collaboration is very, very important. 

Mark Lapidus [13:55]: That's why it's so important for people to attend conferences like this, because you can't get that when you're sitting in your office back at a DMO. 

Rafael Villanueva [14:02]: And we're so used to going to - most of our conferences is we're out there trying to get our clients, trying to meet here. Here you're collaborating, like Art mentioned. I attended a destination development session earlier, I attended one on strategic partners, and no one's leading it, but everyone's talking. No one went there to hear someone speak; they wanted to hear ideas amongst their peers. It's a great session, they had one at international. That's, to me, one of my favorite sessions of ESTO. 

Mark Lapidus [14:26]: Travel Nevada recently expanded its industry development team with a new Global Market Manager role. Tell us about that. 

Rafael Villanueva [14:32]: So we're very fortunate. We just hired a young lady from Las Vegas. She worked at the Tropicana hotel, she's worked at a couple other little hotels in the city. But she's going to be able to work with our five international offices that we have. So she'll be making sure that they're doing what we've asked them to do. She's going to fit in really well with us. It was something that we needed, because at the point, we didn't have someone in that position for over a year. Our Chief Industry Development Officer was having to do some of that work, that didn't allow her to do these other projects we needed to - like stewardship. We have a great stewardship program that we're going to be rolling out soon, that involves three different tiers. That's very important to her and to us. And Yesse, who's the coordinator that we hired, will now be able to take the reins, take that off of her shoulders and off her plate. 

Mark Lapidus [15:16]: So one of the things that's dominating our conversations over the last couple of conferences that I've been at is responsible tourism. How are you gentlemen addressing that? 

Art Jimenez [15:25]: So if you go back to, let's just use Covid as a baseline, where California shut down and Reno and Lake Tahoe were just overrun. We had our best years ever during COVID - who ever would have thought that, right? So much to the point that the DMOs around the lake, around Lake Tahoe - and we're only 40 minutes away from Lake Tahoe - were calling us and saying, "Hey, we're overrun. We've just got too many people. Just please stop promoting us. You know, it's just happening by itself." And so from that bubbled, there was a need to educate people that have never been to Lake Tahoe, have never camped, not really understanding what the whole genre is, about sustainability in that area. Where, you know, clean up what you leave; if you start a fire, make sure you put it out, of course. So a lot of the DMOs around the lake now have gone from Destination Marketing Organizations to Destination Management Organizations. They're just promoting that whole sustainability, leave no trace, clean up before you go. 

Mark Lapidus [16:19]: So education is a large part of it. 

Art Jimenez [16:21]: Exactly. 

Rafael Villanueva [16:21]: And we're doing, we're taking a lead a little bit from the RSCVA, and we assigned an agreement recently with a group called Leave No Trace. It's an educational element and a certification element. We were able to build into our contract an agreement with them. Our license agreement with them is education with our State Parks. So it's not just Travel Nevada, but it's our 27 State Parks that we have in Nevada, to be able to work with them and know that next step, because we have wonderful communities. Unfortunately, there's some that want tourism, but don't want tourists. And what I mean is, they enjoy the benefits that tourism brings to all of us who live in the state of Nevada. You know, with tourism, we pay approximately $5,200 less in taxes, because of the success of tourism. 

Mark Lapidus [17:01]: That's a great metric. I don't think I've ever heard anyone use that. 

Rafael Villanueva [17:03]: I love that number. And what is great about it, though, is we want to be able to drive people to see these beautiful, open spaces in our state. But we also understand why they don't want people. They don't want it to be overrun; they don't want it to be, you know, trash left everywhere. So we're bringing these classes. So we're doing that, we're doing another agreement with a group called Tourism Foundation that does a lot of things worldwide about sustainability. And then another element of that pillar of ours is going to be Travel Ability: how you can access it, making it easier, beyond the ADA. Jake Steinman has led that group. We're going to be partnering and learning a lot more of that. It provided us, our partnership with them, an amazing playbook that could be used by destinations, DMOs, outdoor rec, hotels, that we're about to share it with our partners in the next few weeks because we want to make it accessible for everybody to be there. We want to take care of the lands that we're at, and we want people to want to come back. 

Mark Lapidus [17:52]: Rafael, I have to do a shameless plug here. You set me up, so I have to say it: we have podcast episodes with Leave No Trace and with Travel Ability. 

Art Jimenez [18:00]: And you know, being a true four-season destination, wide open space, you know, we were that long before COVID - 100 years ago, 50 years ago - so I think being that type of destination, sustainability goes hand in hand. You know, if you're that type of traveler, that type of person that's experiencing a bike ride, or hiking, you know, up in the mountains, you're going to be conscious of that already. So really, it's been pretty easy for us to continue that communication; it's not anything new to us. 

Mark Lapidus [18:26]: Learned a lot during this podcast. Thank you both for dropping by, I really appreciate it. 

Rafael Villanueva [18:29]: Well, thank you. Thank you for the invitation. It was great. 

Art Jimenez [18:32]: Thank you. 

Mark Lapidus [18:32]: Our pleasure. And that's Brand USA Talks Travel, live from Columbus, Ohio at ESTO. Lots more episodes coming. I'm Mark Lapidus, thanks for listening. 

Outro [18:41]: If you enjoyed this Live From ESTO episode, please share it with your friends in the travel industry. Production and music by Asher Meerovich. Media producer, Nthanze Kariuki, with assistance from Casey D'Ambra. Engineering, Brian Watkins, Kat Pommer, and Antonio Tyler. Art by Mimi Jung. Special thanks to Alexis Adelson, Phil Dickieson, Peter Dodge, and Colleen Mangone. More Live From ESTO episodes coming soon. Safe travels!

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